Economist Writing Every Day

Bill Gross grew PIMCO into a trillion dollar company by trading bonds, earning the epithet “Bond King“. But in an interview with Odd Lots this week, he disclaims both bonds and his title. He wasn’t the king:

My reputation as a bond king was first of all made by Fortune. They printed a four page article with me standing on my head doing yoga, and I was supposedly the bond king, and that was good because it sold tickets. But I never really believed it. The minute you start believing it, you’re cooked.

Who is the real bond king? The Fed:

The bond kings and queens now are are at the Fed. They rule, they determine for the most part which way interest rates are going.

Who still isn’t the bond king? Any other trader, especially Jeff Gundlach:

To be a bond king or a queen, you need a kingdom, you need a kingdom. Okay, Pimco had two trillion dollars. Okay, DoubleLine’s got like fifty five billion. Come on, come on, that’s no kingdom. That’s like Latvia or Estonia whatever. Okay, and then then look at his record for the last five, six, seven years. How does sixtieth percentile smack of a bond king? It doesn’t.

Why he doesn’t believe in long-term bonds right now:

We have a deficit of close to two trillion. The outstanding treasury market is about 33 trillion… about thirty percent of the existing outstanding treasuries, so ten trillion have to be rolled over in the next twelve months, including the two trillion that’s new. So that’s that’s twelve trillion dollars. Where the treasuries that have to be financed over the next twelve months, and who’s going to buy them at these levels? Well, some people are buying them, but it just seems to be a lot of money. And when you when you add on to that, Powell is doing quantitative tightening, as you know, and that theoretically is a trillion dollars worth of added supply, I guess. And so it just seems like a very dangerous time based on supply, even if inflation does comedown.

By revealed preference I agree with Gross, in that I don’t own any long-term bonds. Their yields are way up from 2 years ago, making them somewhat tempting, but I can get higher yields on short-term bonds, some savings accounts, and some stocks. So I see no reason to go long term, especially given the factors Gross highlights. If he’s right, better long-term yields will be here in a year or two. If he turns out to be wrong, I think it would be because of a severe recession here or in another major economy, but I don’t expect that. So what is Gross buying instead of bonds? He likes the idea of real estate:

 All all my buddies at the country club are in real estate, and they’ve never paid a tax in their life…. I’ve paid a lot of taxes.

He landed on Master Limited Partnerships, common in the energy sector, as an easier way to avoid taxes, and has 40% of his wealth there. Those are yielding more like 9% and have the tax benefits, though they are risker than treasury bonds. The rest of his portfolio he implies is in stocks, describing some merger arbitrage opportunities. I am a bit tempted by bonds because they’ve done so badly recently (and so have gotten much cheaper), but like Gross I think we’re still not to the bottom.